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Post by shaungamer on Mar 9, 2008 5:39:27 GMT -5
This thread is for criticisms and comments on the new BETA rules 'FLAT OUT WAR - Special Operations'
We really need feedback on this one.
See the "News" announcement for the download.
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Post by FNH on Mar 9, 2008 15:36:24 GMT -5
I have just quickly flicked through the page havn't read a word yet.
The inclusion of colour graphics it a good idea makes the whole thing feel more pleasant.
I dislike the red boarder round the page, I preferred it in black.
The majority of characters shown are all "Fantasy" which doesn't show the full versatility of the rules set. I think you should consider more modern/scifi images
I think it might be worth adding a couple of sample army lists to show how the final points/attributes system pans out.
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Post by shaungamer on Mar 9, 2008 17:42:33 GMT -5
I dislike the red boarder round the page, I preferred it in black.Consider it changed! The majority of characters shown are all "Fantasy" which doesn't show the full versatility of the rules set. I think you should consider more modern/scifi imagesThe images were just a quick addition to the ruleset to improve its presentation. Naturally we will add some more modern and Sci-fi images as we get them. Expect to see some Splatball stuff as well! I think it might be worth adding a couple of sample army lists to show how the final points/attributes system pans out.I was going to add a page of sample troops but an army or two, with all their different units, might make things a bit clearer. The attributes also need to have all their examples completed (I think I only got up to "Charge") Thanks for the quick feedback!
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Post by compaparmaus on Mar 10, 2008 16:12:49 GMT -5
I have not read through the rules properly either, but there are a few comments. Keep to cartoon images. The photos don't seem to fit in properly. You have included some of the new 'Fantasy Attributes' from the forum topic but others have been left out. Why? Add more examples - the army lists that were suggested may do this sufficiently.
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Post by shaungamer on Mar 10, 2008 17:52:45 GMT -5
Keep to cartoon images. The photos don't seem to fit in properly.
I would like a second opinion on this before removing the photos (I think there is only the one so far - Badger Mortar) as I am thinking of adding more. (Pygmies, Splatball etc.)
You have included some of the new 'Fantasy Attributes' from the forum topic but others have been left out. Why?
To be honest, I think I just forgot. I know some didn't seem to be different enough, and others seemed 'too hard' to work out costs etc. (They probably need some playtesting) I will take another look at them all and see if something can't be worked out???
Add more examples - the army lists that were suggested may do this sufficiently.
Yes I will make the Armies detailed so you can see how they are put together.
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Post by shaungamer on Mar 11, 2008 5:33:20 GMT -5
Updated rules are available. Includes changes to the flying attribute and the addition of some other Attributes (Glide, Reliant, Resiliant). Army Lists have also been added.
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Post by squirmydad on Mar 12, 2008 13:53:38 GMT -5
I like the addition of the army lists, please add a page of blank templates so people can fill in their own. I like the black border better than the red. This version seems to be missing the attributes of heavy armor and it's counter; heavy weapon and extra heavy weapon. Il like the examples under every attribute. Do infantry have to buy the attribute "walker"? A little bit more explanation of this attribute seems to be in order. I'm putting together an army list for my JSDF forces and I'd like to have those heavy attributes back. Please?
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Post by squirmydad on Mar 12, 2008 14:28:13 GMT -5
Oh, and a page of templates. Please.
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Post by squirmydad on Mar 12, 2008 17:00:57 GMT -5
So I've got a AAA unit in my JSDF force and I can't quite figure out what attribute would help to distinguish it as primarily AAA and not just another AFV. I'm thinking "Sharpshooter" - but limited to airborne vehicles (due to radar or advanced imaging arrays, etc.), I'm not sure how to price that.
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Post by shaungamer on Mar 12, 2008 19:43:55 GMT -5
OK a new pdf has been posted.
I have added the 'Heavy' Attributes back in. I have also added an 'Anti-flyer' Attribute.
Walker does not NEED to be taken by Infantry unless you want them to work like the Infantry in the original Flat Out War. Not all games use only two facings for loose cohesion troops and it is fun playing with four!
The Templates have also been added to the Back of the Book.
I am still interested in any other improvements you can think of!!
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Post by squirmydad on Mar 12, 2008 20:16:33 GMT -5
Sticky: Attack continues to effect target (or area of effect in case of template weapon) on subsequent turns but at a reduced effectiveness. Examples; Snake poison, Radioactive blast, Napalm. Thanks for the revisions and additions.
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Post by shaungamer on Mar 13, 2008 19:32:08 GMT -5
Sticky sounds good. I will wait and see if there are more ideas before updating the pdf.
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Post by squirmydad on Mar 13, 2008 21:07:49 GMT -5
Sensor Network - Basically a special communications attribute that eliminates LOS penalties if one unit with sensor net can see a target then a unit with arcing artillery and sensor net can target the obstructed unit without penalty. Something like that.
How would you construct a ballistic missile and it's carrier? One vehicle with an exhaustible weapon?
The 'Exhaustible Weapon' attribute makes superweapons ridiculously cheap BTW.
Reload and hit markers? I can make my own but I thought there were some available for the previous version of FOW.
I'll post my JSDF and Aliens force list later.
Thanks, Eric
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Post by squirmydad on Mar 14, 2008 17:22:23 GMT -5
My JSDF so far;
Name/Type: Die:Weapon: Die:Range:Move:Attributes: Cost:
T75 APC D8 MMG D6 6" 3" Tracked, Transport (2xd6) 22 T75 MLRS D8 MLRS D6 18" 3" Tracked, Template 4" 26 T75 FMR D8 Full Metal Ro D8 18" 3" Tracked, Hvy Ranged 29 T75 AAA D8 AAA D6 12" 3" Tracked, Anti-Flyer, Turret, Multi-shot(2) 34 T90 MBT D10 Cannon D10 9" 3" Tracked, Turret, Hvy armor, Hvy 46 Missile CrawlD10 Ballistic Msl D12 32" 2" Tracked, Exhaustible (4), Arcing Arty, Template 6", Hvy Ranged, Reload (2) 68
Truck D6 - - - 4" Transport (2d6) 12 Attack ChoppD10 Msl D10 9" 6" Flying, Hover 46
Command unit D4 Bad Language - 2" Loose Cohesion (4"), Command 12 Infantry D6 MMG D6 6" 2" Loose Cohesion (4") 12 Hvy Infantry D6 Rocket D8 4" 2" Loose Cohesion (4") 13 Jump Infantry D6 Maser rifles D8 6" 4" Jump (4"), Loose cohesion (4") 18
T75 Howitzer D8 Cannon D8 18" 3" Tracked, Template 2" 29 T96 APC D10 MMG D6 6" 4" Transport (4xd6) 28 T66 Maser D12 Hvy Maser D12 12" 3" Hvy Ranged 38 Astol VTOL D10 Medium Maser D10 9" 8" Flying, Hover, Hvy Ranged 54 CH47 Helicopter D10 - - - 4" Flying, Hover, Transport (8xd6) 48 T92 Maser D10 Medium Maser D10 9" 3" Tracked, Hvy Ranged 32
Aliens Scout Saucer D8 Noisy Beamer D8 12" 8" Flying, Hover, Turn 43 Attack Saucer D12 Beam Wave D10 T 6" Flying, Hover, Turn, Template:Flame 65 Mothership D20 God Hammer D10 12" 4" Hvy Armor, Template 6", Transport(8xD8) 133
Notes; Haven't tried this out yet. The ranges and the movements are intended to reflect a 1/300 scale battlefield. The Alien Motherships transport capacity is for the Alien Jump Infantry, Attack Skimmers and Assault Mecha that I'm still working on. I believe the T90's gun can be reduced to a D8 instead of a D10. Like I said, I haven't tested this list out yet so I need to get in some play-time this next week.
Also, when I made the Missile Crawlers payload Exhaustible the price for that mega-killer machine dropped to 17 points. That's why I said that Exhaustible is too powerful of an attribute in it's current form.
Once again, thanks for the update. It comes at an opportune time for me to devote some attention to FOW again.
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Post by shaungamer on Mar 15, 2008 3:29:11 GMT -5
My JSDF so far;These are excellent! I like the names! Very descriptive! Truck D6 - - - 4" Transport (2d6) 12I noticed a couple of times you have not put down a weapon value (Ranged or melee) or melee value. In the rules (currently) if you do not have a melee or ranged weapon, you still pay 2DAC of the base die to represent melee capability - human fists, trucks ramming, APCs running over etc. However, do you think this melee capability should be mandatory or would you rather have the option that if a D4 truck comes up against a D4 set of Troops the truck cannot do damage? Just interested as I will have to change the rules. Anyone can poke there opinion in!! Also, when I made the Missile Crawlers payload Exhaustible the price for that mega-killer machine dropped to 17 points. That's why I said that Exhaustible is too powerful of an attribute in it's current form. I think the exhaustable weapon modifier was only meant to apply to the Weapon cost not the whole Element cost. This would mean that the Missile Crawler would be 48 points not 17. I think this will be a common mistake with people who have played original FOW, where everything related to a single dice and cost. These rules are a bit more complex and some Attributes apply to the Base die, some to the Weapon Die and some to the total. It is precisly these issues which I hope to resolve before releasing the ruleset properly. (Believe me I am sure there will be errors, especially in the Attributes section!!) Once again, thanks for the update. It comes at an opportune time for me to devote some attention to FOW again.I am glad to be of service. I wish I could join in. (What are you using for Infantry models?)
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