adamr
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Post by adamr on Jul 16, 2010 13:41:05 GMT -5
Hello. I just found DP in a very specific google search and so far I REALLY enjoy it. "Great job" to the creators. I love that DP can be played single player, and I love the random dungeon system along with build-your-own-quest. There are really no limits with this.
OK. My question is about the Life Force spell. In the V3 rules it says you can cast as many spells as you want while in the dungeon. But what is to stop my Earth Magic hero from just healing the party members over and over again?
I apologize if I missed something obvious. I'm pretty new to table top gaming and I'm still getting a handle on the rules. Plus, I've only played through one full DP quest so far.
Thanks and keep up the great work!
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Post by dan on Jul 18, 2010 8:25:38 GMT -5
Sometimes this board is a little slow moving, don't get discouraged from posting though; it's just that everyone here has various work and family obligations, so this isn't always a first priority.
As far as your question, I don't really see anything stopping you from sitting in a room you have cleared out and casting Life Force, which when I think about it, maybe the spell should cost a bit more, but really if you keep in mind that if a Character casts a spell and the player rolls all ones and twos then the Character loses whatever spell they were casting for the rest of the quest, so you might not want to just sit around doing this as you are kind of tempting fate, though at higher levels, you wouldn't run much risk of rolling all ones and twos...hopefully Shaun will have some time to weigh in on this.
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adamr
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Post by adamr on Jul 18, 2010 12:57:30 GMT -5
Thanks, Dan. I guess I forgot about the ones-and-twos rule.
btw, I'm on my 3rd quest and still loving the game.
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erf_beto
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Post by erf_beto on Jul 19, 2010 7:43:02 GMT -5
Character loses whatever spell they were casting for the rest of the quest, so you might not want to just sit around doing this as you are kind of tempting fate, though at higher levels, you wouldn't run much risk of rolling all ones and twos...hopefully Shaun will have some time to weigh in on this. Shaun mentioned in another thread that magic would get a bit of an overhaul sometime, and one thing he talked about is that it would become easier to loose a spell. I'd love to know more. [hint] [hint] [hint] The way I'd play it, the higher the level of the spell, the easier it is to loose it: subtract your magic stat from the level of the spell - that's how many 1's and 2's you roll to loose the spell. If this totals zero or less, you loose it just by failing the casting roll. Ex. a wizard with MAG 5 tries to cast a lvl.4 spell, if he fails and rolls a single failure (5-4=1) he looses the spell. Had he tried to cast a lvl.2 spell, he would need 3 failures (5-2=3) to loose that spell. Still, this doesnt address the "heal up to full after each battle" issue the OP talked about. If that becomes a problem, or if you want an extra difficulty, you can rule something like limited healing: you can only heal LIF up to the caster's successes with this spell. Ex. a cleric with MAG 6 rolls 3 successes, so he can bring an ally's LIF to 3. This means the spell can't heal someone whose LIF is 3 or higher, being meant only for characters close to death. On second thought, that might be too much. Maybe limiting it to the caster's MAG stat or making it "successes + spell dificulty", and creating higher level healing spells. A simpler solution could be taxing the caster: make him loose 1 LIF for every Life Force spell he uses.
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Post by dan on Jul 19, 2010 18:51:50 GMT -5
I have always liked the concept of magic slowly having some negative effect on spellcasters, be it physical damage, insanity, mutations, etc...it could make for an interesting table to roll on for odd negative effects.
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adamr
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Post by adamr on Jul 19, 2010 21:07:16 GMT -5
Very cool ideas.
On my first 2 dungeons I was limiting the use of Life Force to once per encounter and even then I barely used it. Dungeon #3 (Den of the Orcs) was much more of a challenge with WAY more encounters. Life force had been cast quite a bit but with no total failures (MAG 6). Losing the spell would have been bad. I'm going to play WotWW next where I'll implement Erf's tougher spell failure rule. I'll let you know how it goes.
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erf_beto
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Post by erf_beto on Jul 20, 2010 14:41:33 GMT -5
Another idea:
Some spells might require special components that have a gold cost or have to be refilled in town. Also, they might take up an inventory space to carry. That way, healing (and any other problematic spell) can be restricted to a handfull on each quest.
Ex: Balm of Healing (5 gold) or a Healing Herb (no cost, but must be "fresh") for Life Force.
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Post by dan on Jul 20, 2010 19:25:22 GMT -5
That's not a bad idea at all...spell components could definitely help to limit over use of a given spell...I've been looking more at the spells, and it does seem a few of them could be unbalancing. At higher levels, lets say you had Rebirth or Soul Catcher (both of which revive dead heroes), assuming you could successfully cast them, and could do so repeatedly, you may never lose anyone...when I get some time I am going to try to play through a quest with all magic users, just to see how it plays out.
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adamr
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Post by adamr on Jul 21, 2010 20:23:21 GMT -5
I like the idea of limiting the spell's use in a way that I can simply make tick marks on the character sheet to keep track. A big draw to this game for me is that its not overly complicated.
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Post by brynbrenainn on Jul 22, 2010 3:42:47 GMT -5
Well...
A problem with that is that that lack of complexity is what many finds charming in the game.
I guess it is hard to make one rules system to fit all.
Personally I think a broad but shallow system is better than a narrow and deep. - If you see what I mean...?
/PJ
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Post by dan on Jul 22, 2010 6:55:59 GMT -5
I wouldn't want to add much in the way of complexity, I think a system of tick marks (marking of used components or magical energy) is actually an interesting solution, that or rewriting/reworking the spells...which Shaun may be working on...but I think something will need to be done in the long run to prevent magic users from becoming too unbalanced.
I do understand the broad/shallow vs narrow/deep, and I agree, but I also don't know if I would always categorise DP as broad/shallow. The stats for example are as numerous and complex as many rpgs out there, not that I see that as bad, but sometimes certain levels of complexity are good, especially if it encourages balanced play.
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Post by brynbrenainn on Jul 24, 2010 17:55:40 GMT -5
I do understand the broad/shallow vs narrow/deep, and I agree, but I also don't know if I would always categorise DP as broad/shallow. The stats for example are as numerous and complex as many rpgs out there, not that I see that as bad, but sometimes certain levels of complexity are good, especially if it encourages balanced play. Hmm... You are right. ;D
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Post by dan on Jul 24, 2010 21:01:18 GMT -5
I wouldn't really call this expert analysis, but it seems to me after some playing through with all magic users, you can manage to throw balance off quite a bit, especially if you hang out every so often to heal everyone to max...monsters with Conspire could hurt that strategy some...but yeah, overall, I really think this is something that could use some sort of fix in the long run. I do think it's important for any kind of fix to be very basic though, something that doesn't add too much bookkeeping...maybe just making healing spells more expensive could work.
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Post by brynbrenainn on Jul 26, 2010 10:15:51 GMT -5
Or, perhaps... Making healing a higher lever spell... My reasoning being that it is harder to repair than destroy...?
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erf_beto
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Post by erf_beto on Jul 26, 2010 14:13:52 GMT -5
My reasoning being that it is harder to repair than destroy...? *sigh* So true... Some other ideas for trouble spells: * The caster receives -1 penalty to MAG. This lasts until the party leaves the dungeon. * The spell is always lost after a successfull casting.
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