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Post by dan on Jul 28, 2010 19:02:01 GMT -5
The -1 penalty seems pretty harsh. I do like the always lost option, mostly for spells that return dead characters to life. It strikes me that you shouldn't just resurrect people willy nilly, it should be kind of a big deal.
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erf_beto
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Artwork Wizard
Posts: 369
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Post by erf_beto on Jul 29, 2010 15:42:24 GMT -5
Yes, I think so too. The always lost is a lot like the spell components variant, only simpler. And they could be "always lost, but always succeed", meaning you don't roll MAG to cast, though its effects can vary depending on how high it is. Kinda like D&D fire-and-forget spells. Personally, I'd like to have all spells this way, with some exceptions, and special abilities that grant at-will spellcasting (like in DP). I was devising a variant rule some time ago (a long long time ago), here's what I wrote back then: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:: MAGIC AND SPELLCASTING ::
PREPARING AND CASTING A SPELL Before adventuring, a hero with access to magic can prepare a number of spells up to his MAG stat, though special abilities may increase this number. He can prepare the same spell many times, allowing him to cast it more often, but once each version is cast, he spends its magic energy and he can't cast it again for the rest of the dungeon. Whenever the hero rests, he recovers his magic energy and can prepare his spells again, or rearrange his spell selection. When he deems appropriate, the caster uses an action to invoke the spell. Only one spell may be cast per turn and it counts as an attack for that turn. A prepared spell uses the caster's MAG stat (or lower, if desired) to determine its effect. Once cast, a prepared spell is resolved (and resisted) and then discarded.
RESISTING A SPELL If a spell can be resisted, the defenders roll their appropriate stat (usually RES, DEX or WIT) and must obtain a number of successes equal to the level of the spell as well. Even if resisted, most spells cause a little damage or distress. Also, the caster may have special abilities that might increase the difficulty to resist some of his magic.
INNATE SPELLS Some heroes might have spontaneous spell-casting ability. They sacrifice power and versatility for usability: you choose one single spell, and you can only have 1 spontaneous spell for every 2 WIT (to a maximum of 5 at WIT 9). Unlike prepared spells, spontaneous magic is harder to master and control. To successfully cast an innate spell, the hero rolls his MAG stat and must obtain a number of successes equal to the level of the spell. Some special abilities may diminish the number of successes needed to cast specific spells. If the casting roll fails, the spell fizzles and the caster looses his action, but an innate spell is not discarded unless the caster rolls a critical failure. Heroes may mix-and-match their spell-casting, having both prepared and innate spells. For example, a cleric can prepare powerfull healings, buffs and resurrections, but keep an innate low level cure spell to patch wounds after the fight is over.
:: MAGIC SPECIAL ABILITIES ::
Extra Spells Requirement: Magic Training, Magic School, WIT 3 Benefit: you can prepare 2 extra spells you have access to. Special: you can take this ability many times and its benefits stack. Each time you do, however, increase the WIT requirement by 2. Example: you need WIT 10 to buy this ability for the 4th time, gaining a total of 8 extra spells.
Innate Spell Requirement: WIT 2 Benefit: you learn a level 1 spell of your choice. You always know this spell, and it doesn't count against the limit of spells you can prepare. If you roll a critical failure, you loose the spell for the rest of the dungeon. Special: you can take this ability more than once, to get another different level 1 innate spell, but each time you do, however, increase the WIT requirement by 2. Example: to have 3 innate spells, you need WIT 6 (2+2+2=6).
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Well, spellcastingwise, I never got past this point. And I didn't address the healing issue. On the contrary, I chose to make it obvious, as a reminder of something else I wanted to do... In Warhammer Quest there's a mechanic where each turn, the wizard hero rolls to see how much mana he gains that turn, and if he rolls [X][X] (I don't remember), a random event happens, like a wandering monster or whatever. Even when the wizard is out of spells, he keeps rolling just to see if something strange comes along. So it's a gamble: if you choose to lay back in a room patching up your wounds, the dungeon might punish you eventually. I thought about bringing this to DP in a way that it doesn't involve more die rolling, and that wouldn't make casting a spell in combat more dangerous than the combat itself. But all that may be too much already. Even if this is, at its core, very simple, I feel it's getting too deep for a lighthearted game like Dungeon Plungin (specially when you count the reworking of Special Abilities I planned, with all its implications). Maybe that's why I haven't worked on this project for over 6 months... EDIT: And I totally derailed the thread. ¬¬
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Post by dan on Jul 29, 2010 19:30:13 GMT -5
That is an interesting angle, but it does have major implications in how it would affect other aspects of the game. I keep feeling like there is a simple solution to this, and we are just not quite seeing it. I don't see this as a derailment though, anything that gets people thinking about alternate possibilities can always have value. Any point at all is a point to start from.
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Post by shaungamer on Aug 1, 2010 21:50:07 GMT -5
Sorry I am late to the party. In V3 of the rules the the rolling all 1s & 2s was meant to inhibit spell casting. This is fine if you have a MAG stat of 2 or 3 but when you reach 4 or 5 the chance of rolling all 1s and 2s are very low indeed. A temporary fix (that is being incorporated into V4 of the rules) is that if the number of 1s & 2s rolled is greater than the number of 5s & 6s then you lose the spell.
This gives better chances of losing a spell during a game.
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Post by dan on Aug 2, 2010 19:23:11 GMT -5
That should actually be pretty effective. It might cause an issue with scaling, ie, someone with MAG 6 is as likely to lose a spell as someone with MAG 3, but the stronger spellcaster would still be better prepared in that they would have more spells.
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Post by shaungamer on Aug 2, 2010 22:48:47 GMT -5
The whole point is that higher level spellcaster's have more spells to waste!! I am currently playtesting an item/ability that gives you 1 automatic success on a D6 when casting spells. Currently it is only available to higher level Heroes. So if you have MAG 6 then you only roll 5 dice as the other is an automatic success. This reduces the chance of losing spells as well as increasing the chance of success.
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Post by dan on Aug 3, 2010 8:28:49 GMT -5
So in this system, if you roll more 1 & 2s than successes, would the spell still be successful even though you lost it?
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erf_beto
Artist
Artwork Wizard
Posts: 369
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Post by erf_beto on Aug 3, 2010 10:38:43 GMT -5
Hmmm, I like it. Simple and effective! dan: I believe the spell wouldn't work, since you didn't enough successes to cast it. Slight tangent: would anyone be interested in adapting some original D&D spells to DP, as a "vancian" variant system? I'm in an Old School Nostalgia stage these days...
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Post by shaungamer on Aug 3, 2010 18:52:27 GMT -5
So in this system, if you roll more 1 & 2s than successes, would the spell still be successful even though you lost it? Erf_beto is almost right!! If you roll enough successes then the spell will still work, but if you don't . . . it won't. For example Hale Magenta the fire wizard is MAG 5 and decides to cast Pulse on his Warrior companion. It is a DIF 2 spell. He rolls 5 dice and gets 1,1,2,5,6. The two successes means he has succeeded with the spell. The three failures mean he has lost the use of that spell for the rest of the Dungeon.
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